…I like to encourage people to look at things differently than they might have 20 years ago. We need to add something to art, music, and school studies. They should teach us that people have different values, and it’s okay. Nowadays, many people argue instead of listening when they disagree. I believe in respecting others’ points of view, even if I don’t fully agree with them. It’s essential. People should have diverse ideas and be able to communicate them. The problem is, disagreements escalate into conflicts too quickly. Years ago, it was cool if someone liked a song I didn’t, they could explain what made it great to them. The same goes for art I’m not into. Introducing something new in school programs could help people look at things differently, regardless of whether they become artists or musicians. That’s not the sole purpose of these programs. But as things stand, we’re becoming too mechanical, too much like an assembly line in our approach. Even artistic endeavors, like Hollywood movies, have become too formulaic. They’re lacking something vital. And consider records! Part of the charm was flipping the record over, reading the liner notes, sharing, and playing things in order. Now, you can choose whatever order you want. I’m excited about these observations because I think the younger generation is discovering things on their own that we’re out of touch with. That’s the kind of stuff I would like to share…
I had the pleasure to talk to Mike J. Nichols and Scott Wright. Mike J. Nichols is a producer, director, writer, and an American film editor originally from Illinois currently living and working in Los Angeles. Scott Wright, also known as Shadow Steele is a legendary music radio host.
Yitzi: Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive in, our readers would love to get to know a bit about your background. So, Scott, can you share your origin story and the backstory of how you grew up?
Scott: I grew up in Chicago, and my father owned a chain of record stores, making me a music junkie from a very early age. I was ten years old when the Beatles made their mark, and pop music quickly became my whole life. My career took me into the radio business as a disc jockey, starting in New York, then moving to LA, and eventually reaching a national audience. I also spent some time working in the record business, so essentially, my entire life has revolved around music. Growing up with a million records at home really paved the way to where I am today. As a child, I began making movies on Super Eight films around the age of nine, continuing until I was about 16. Living in the country, we struggled with radio reception, so my engagement with music came later. It wasn’t until my teen years that I really started exploring music, learning to play the guitar, and immersing myself in listening to music. Then MTV came along, and I even wrote a letter to one of the VJs, who turned out to be Frank Zappa’s son. We became friends during that time, and he’s someone I still talk to today. For the past 13 years, I’ve been making music documentaries.
Yitzi: So, both of you have fascinating careers and probably have many fascinating experiences. This might be hard to narrow down, but Scott, can you share with us either the most exciting or humorous story that occurred during your music or filmmaking career?
Scott: Most of the humorous stories aren’t suitable for broadcast, but I can share some highlights. I’ve had the incredible opportunity to interview all sorts of notable people, from Paul McCartney to Paul Simon. You can pretty much name any rock star, and at one point or another, I’ve had the chance to work with them or interview them. That’s always been what fuels my passion — getting to know these individuals and spending time with them. They lead lives unlike anyone else, each with a very unique and fascinating story.
Yitzi: That’s great. Is there any particular story?
Scott: Well, one notable highlight involved Freddie Mercury in the back of a limo on the way to a concert in Philadelphia in 1978, but we’ll have to leave it at that. Have you seen the movie Almost Famous?
Yitzi: So, Michael, can you share some of the most interesting or humorous stories since you began your filmmaking career?
Michael: Humor isn’t exactly the first thing that comes to mind when I think about my career, given that my life has been a series of unexpected turns, much like dodging obstacles. I’m acquainted with a lot of comedians and involved in that scene, but real life in that world isn’t always filled with laughter. Interestingly, I hail from a small town where extraordinary encounters like mine are rare. As a teenager, I found myself interacting with musicians and filmmakers from Hollywood, despite living in what felt like the middle of nowhere. A significant connection for me was with the Zappa family, particularly Dweezil. I befriended him and then got to know Gail Zappa and the rest of Frank Zappa’s family during my teenage years. Despite the odds, they took an interest in me, which set me apart in my community and profoundly changed my life in a way I can never replace. While it’s not necessarily a humorous story, it’s incredibly meaningful to me. Currently, I’m independently working on a film about Father Frank.
Yitzi: So, Scott, is there a particular part of your work or career that makes you most proud?
Scott: What captivates me the most is understanding what makes people tick. We’re all unique beings, living in essentially similar biological bodies, yet no two people act, think, or do anything alike. The individuals who gravitate towards the artistic side of life, those who choose to make their living through creativity rather than settling for a conventional job, are the ones who intrigue me the most. Some of these artistic individuals are more interesting than others, and a few are just plain crazy! They’re often way off the charts in many respects. But one thing is for sure: none of them are ordinary. You wouldn’t just see them standing in line at the grocery store. The aspect of my work that fills me with pride is the opportunity to work with people who are truly off the charts in their creativity and way of life.
Yitzi: That’s great. It’s beautiful. How about you, Michael? Is there something about your work that you’re most proud of?
Michael: My inclination has always been to find beauty in the broken or ugly and transform that into art. If I were financially abundant, my desire would be to invest in the arts and music programs that have been stripped away from schools. I believe this is crucial, especially now, as we are experiencing significant deficits in these areas. It’s not just about becoming musicians or artists; these courses teach us to perceive the world differently. What matters to me is encouraging people to see beyond their innate abilities and understand what art signifies, among other things. This opens up minds in a way that’s invaluable. Should a time come when I can afford to give back, supporting the arts in education is where my heart lies. That commitment means a great deal to me.
Yitzi: That’s a great answer. So, Michael and Scott, can you tell our readers about this exciting documentary you are working on, and tell us why we should get excited about it?
Michael: Well, I always thought John had an interesting story. He’s a musician with a collection of hit records familiar to many, even if they don’t recognize the name John Waite. They hear his songs and say, “Oh yeah, I love that song. I grew up with that one. He’s got a bunch of those.” But he never reached the level of superstardom, for various reasons. One reason might be his personality; he’s known to be somewhat difficult and doesn’t always mesh well in business situations, leading him to choose his own path. When I decided to embark on this project, that was the narrative I envisioned. We began by conducting interviews with John, securing some footage, and compiling an extensive archive of materials. His fans, who’ve collected everything from his childhood to the present, were a gold mine for us. However, when we handed everything over to Mike, the filmmaker, he discovered a different angle. The story transformed into one about a journeyman musician who, decades into his career, still thrives on performing live for his fans across the globe. Then, suddenly, he’s faced with the loss of this essential part of his life and must confront the reality of his identity, his past actions, and what the future holds. This unexpected narrative is what makes the documentary truly compelling.
Scott: So, Mike can explain this much better than I can. But I’ll add that John being labeled as complex definitely impacted his career. From my perspective, I didn’t see him as particularly difficult in an artistic sense. However, from a business standpoint, once you really listen to what he’s expressing, it becomes clear that if you can accurately represent his desires, the audience will quickly come to his defense once they understand his perspective. The issue is that people often only hear about the superficial aspects of someone being difficult. In John’s case, I didn’t view him as difficult. It was more about his integrity and the importance he placed on certain aspects of his career. No artist wants to struggle; they end up in that position in an effort to maintain their integrity. But they also don’t want to compromise. This can sometimes be perceived as being difficult. The goal, ultimately, is to continue creating art, to survive, and to be able to produce more work. That’s what everyone aims for. I wanted the audience to embark on this journey with us, seeing John not as a difficult person but as someone who brings integrity and authenticity to his work, something that’s truly admirable.
Yitzi: Okay, this is the signature question we ask in all our interviews. Looking back at the beginning of your career as either a filmmaker or producer, are there a few things you wish somebody had told you when you started and why?
One of the things is when people dream of making it big in Hollywood, they should reconsider. That means, if you’re coming here looking for a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, it’s not there. It’s all about hard work, and you have to be ready to put in the effort. Many people can’t handle the rejection. It won’t be like what you’ve dreamt of. So, if your main goal is to achieve fame, that’s something people chase on the internet nowadays. They want to be famous, so they use the internet as a tool to achieve that. But it can easily fall apart.
Success, like Scott mentioned earlier, as John experienced, comes from collecting experiences and achievements in life. John had a phase of tremendous success that everyone recognized, but he didn’t have to stay trapped in that. He could pursue what he wanted, and people would still recognize and follow his ventures, even if they weren’t as successful as others’. That’s okay. Most people can’t afford that luxury, but if you’re asking me, you have to be in this because you love it, even if you’re not going to earn a dime. It’s like that person Scott was talking about, who, during a date, spent half the time thinking about how they could improve their work the next day. If you’re always thinking about how to do better and worrying about your work, then that’s the kind of dedication you need.
Yitzi: When you create a film, which stakeholders have the most significant impact on your artistic and cinematic choices? Is it the viewers, the financiers, or your artistic vision? Is it the critics? How do those stakeholders shape the final product?
In my process of creating a film, I tend to isolate myself from external influences, whether they be viewers, financiers, or critics. Much like a method actor immerses themselves into a character or a world, even if it’s something as mundane as the process of cutting potatoes, I dive deep into the essence of what I’m creating. This approach allows me to focus solely on the authenticity and truth of the artistic vision I’m trying to achieve. Don Henley once mentioned that he doesn’t actively write songs; instead, he waits for them to come to him. I adopt a similar mindset, believing that by distancing myself from external expectations and pressures, the true essence of the film will reveal itself to me. Of course, I’m aware of the audience’s expectations, but I choose to momentarily shut these out during the creative process. It’s only after I feel the project has taken shape and embodies the movie I envisioned, that I begin to open it up to feedback, which might even transform it into a play.
The focus is never on accolades or commercial success; such ambitions can distract and detract from the creative process. The real challenge and, indeed, the curse lies in committing to the project, pouring your heart and soul into it until you sense there’s something substantial and meaningful taking form. I’m serious about dedicating myself to this work, but I find it crucial to block out any distractions or doubts about its financial viability or appeal to specific demographics. This principle aligns closely with a character, John, in one of my films, who emphasizes that the essence of our endeavor is the work itself, the art. This resonates deeply with me, and if I were to sum up my philosophy, it would be that at the end of the day, it’s all about the commitment to creating something genuine and impactful. Success might not always mean global recognition, but as long as you have put in your utmost effort, there will be appreciation, whether from prestigious academies or just someone in your local community. The beauty lies in the work being recognized for its intrinsic value.
Yitzi: Both of you are people are of significant influence because of the the platform that you’ve created. If you could spread an idea or start a movement that would bring the most good to the most people, what would it be?
Michael: Let me think about that while you answer. I still hold on to something I said earlier: I like to encourage people to look at things differently than they might have 20 years ago. We need to add something to art, music, and school studies. They should teach us that people have different values, and it’s okay. Nowadays, many people argue instead of listening when they disagree. I believe in respecting others’ points of view, even if I don’t fully agree with them. It’s essential. People should have diverse ideas and be able to communicate them. The problem is, disagreements escalate into conflicts too quickly. Years ago, it was cool if someone liked a song I didn’t, they could explain what made it great to them. The same goes for art I’m not into. Introducing something new in school programs could help people look at things differently, regardless of whether they become artists or musicians. That’s not the sole purpose of these programs. But as things stand, we’re becoming too mechanical, too much like an assembly line in our approach. Even artistic endeavors, like Hollywood movies, have become too formulaic. They’re lacking something vital. And consider records! Part of the charm was flipping the record over, reading the liner notes, sharing, and playing things in order. Now, you can choose whatever order you want. I’m excited about these observations because I think the younger generation is discovering things on their own that we’re out of touch with. That’s the kind of stuff I would like to share.
Scott: I want to find a way to teach people how to listen again. It seems people don’t listen anymore. Everyone is focused on producing and sharing their content, whether on social media or elsewhere. Everyone is a creator, everyone has their brand, but nobody is stopping to listen. We’ve become a culture where everyone is focused outward, and nobody listens anymore. That’s why nobody talks to each other anymore, and everything is so polarized. People don’t stop, breathe, and listen. I’d like to see us move in a direction where people learn to listen again.
Michael:I want to say amen to that. It’s almost like people have forgotten how to appreciate things. Just sitting and appreciating something seems to be a lost art.
Yitzi: Fantastic. How can readers best continue following your work online?
Well, there’s the website, johnwaitefilm.com, where they can find the latest links to see trailers and everything related to the film. Then there’s John Waite’s page on Facebook, where they can get all the information about the film. We also have an Instagram site. I always mention that we have this movie coming out. It features a mix of personalities — Scott’s, mine, and a bit of everyone, really — with ideas we’d like to share with others. I encourage everyone to watch the movie! I know people often look forward to special effects with guns and such in movies, and sometimes they overlook films like ours.
For those trying to reach out, we’re active on various social media platforms. I post updates on Instagram and Twitter, and I can share those links if you’re interested. We also have a YouTube page with trailers, promotional clips, and more. It’s been a lot of fun posting there. Just search for John Waite’s for the Hard Way.
Yitzi: Thank you for this fantastic interview.
Mike J. Nichols and Scott Wright On What It Takes To Create A Successful Career As A Filmmaker was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.