An Interview With Brooke Young & Yitzi Weiner
Set Boundaries: Practice saying “no” when necessary and establish clear boundaries in your personal and professional relationships. Recognize that it’s okay to prioritize your own needs and well-being because this will strengthen the bonds and connections you want in your life. Also, it is offering respect to the other when you trust them to honor your boundaries.
In today’s society, the tendency to prioritize others’ needs and expectations over one’s own can lead to significant emotional and psychological challenges. In this series, we would like to explore the complex dynamics of people-pleasing behavior and its impact on individual well-being and relationships. We would like to discuss the root causes of people-pleasing behavior, its effects on personal and professional life, and practical steps for cultivating healthier relationships and self-esteem. We hope that this series can provide insights, strategies, and real-life experiences that can help individuals navigate and overcome the pitfalls of being a people pleaser. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Kathryn Chacra, LCSW-S.
Kathryn Chacra has over 15 years as a clinical licensed social worker working in various outpatient settings treating anxiety, depression, trauma and bereavement. She is also a supervisor training aspiring clinicians in the state of Texas. Recently, she opened a divorce recovery counseling center, Change of Plans Therapy. She serves those contemplating or actively pursuing a collaborative divorce as well as facilitates development of compassionate co-parenting plans alongside her clients.
Thank you so much for your time! I know that you are a very busy person. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us your “Origin Story”? Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
My origin story as a social worker is a direct reflection of my story growing up. I did experience my own parents divorcing when I was 15 years old as the youngest of 4 children. I can say I did have people pleasing as a coping strategy during this time and I watched how my sister did as well. It was about survival! And that is something I want to talk about today as we keep going here shortly. So I grew up in a very middle class family as my dad was an executive with AT&T and my mother was as stay at home mom my entire life. The American dream until it was not. So much radically changed in our lives as result of the divorce and it was in line with statistics- meaning to say my mom financially had to rebuild herself from scratch. Cut to the fact that at the same time her parents were growing more elderly and in need of care. This was the era in my life filled with social workers helping my family. In fact, it was actually my mother who observed how my passion helping others mirrored the helpers in our lives. She suggested I too become a social worker when I was attending the University of Texas at Austin for my undergraduate degree. I loved it so much I pursued my masters degree at Columbia University to keep going!
Can you tell us a bit about what you do professionally, and what brought you to this specific career path?
I love relationships and the ways in which we can regress or grow within their boundaries. I am fascinated by attachment styles, power dynamics and the overall ways that there is so much richness in our romantic lives. While that is not what initially drew me to social work, it is the clinical therapy I now dedicate myself to practicing. People pleasing is a very interesting topic among my individual, couple and group work. In my therapy sessions, I often hear about failed attempts to use people pleasing for the benefit of the relationship. I witness in my group sessions when a member has begun to default to people pleasing instead of risking true vulnerability. It goes without saying that most therapists do have to be vigilant that even within the therapist-client relationships to not allow people pleasing by either of us to cloud the work we are undertaking in our own professional relationship.
Thank you for all that. Let’s now turn to the main focus of our discussion about People Pleasing. To make sure that we are all on the same page, let’s begin with a simple definition. What does “People Pleaser” mean to you?
People pleasing means to me the act of one person suppressing their own thoughts and desires in the aim of satisfying another person. People pleasing most typically is seen as forms of overextending oneself for the other with acts of services and a greater likelihood of a passive communication style during discussions. Day to day this can look like the difficulty in saying no to others, mirroring what we see the other person presenting to us and can even go so far as creating an image that we craft in the aim of gaining more love among other benefits.
On the surface, it seems like being a person who wants to please others is a good thing. Can you help articulate a few of the challenges that come with being a people pleaser?
The benefits of people pleasing do exist! It would be unwise to deny the truth that often it is a powerful tool in relationships, with the most benevolent use being to foster attachment and on the other end of the spectrum has been used as manipulation to garner power. That alone may be surprising to reimagine- viewing people pleasing as manipulation! We must remember though that we are all capable of manipulation and in very micro ways engage in it daily so I want to start there. We all can be people pleasers and thereby we are all capable of manipulating. We may do it at the coffee shop when we let the person who accidentally cut in front of us stay in the line or when we tell our partners we can go to their movie choice yet again. People pleasing at the office can mean taking on more than we initially signed up for or capitulating during that big meeting to avoid rocking the boat. While people pleasing can have virtue for the sacrificial nature of putting the needs of the other above our own, there can be unintended consequences to consider. On the individual level a person may be having their needs neglected and are at risk of being taken advantage of due to an over dependence on people pleasing to foster connection. There is a difference between fitting in and belonging as Brene Brown has spoken about in her Atlas of The Heart book. People pleasing can leave us fitting into our social circles and at work, however, truly belonging can be elusive because subconsciously we may know the relationship is transactional or one-sided. We know we are presenting a false self even if we can justify the reason as good natured.
Does being a people pleaser give you certain advantages? Can you explain?
Oh yes people pleasing most definitely has advantages or it would not be so widely used and I imagine throughout the history of mankind. Humans do not engage in any behavior repeatedly unless there is a benefit. As I alluded to earlier I think there is a spectrum of people pleasing behaviors from innocuous on one end to just keep our day or the conversation moving to the other end that can be more influential on the power dynamics in an ongoing relationship pattern. What I mean to say is that people like you, even can grow dependent on you and humans can even use people pleasing to disguise their underlying motives. If I people please, I may have more people in my life that like me! I can also control situations when people pleasing as a coping strategy. This is speaking to the trauma response of fawn as we now have come to see that when confronted with high stress situations a person may have fight, flight, freeze or fawn. This describes the use of people pleasing for the sake of mitigating risk and perhaps even survival. So the advantages of people pleasing cannot be denied and we may actually need it should we be in peril. This looks like the person who ensure an abusive partner is always put first to avoid their wrath. It can look like the employee who desperately needs their income for their family allowing themselves to be taken advantage of by an authoritarian boss.
Can you describe a moment in your life when you realized that your own people-pleasing behavior was more harmful than helpful?
I can remember as I mentioned earlier that as a teenage girl I used people pleasing to keep my father close to me despite his actions hurting our family. I loved him so much, I was willing to suppress my anger and my opinions in order to make sure he did not want to stop visiting me too. While I felt uncomfortable with the lack of boundaries he had around what he shared with me about his frustrations with my mother, I did not risk admitting it out of fear and so I allowed myself to be pulled into triangulation that I wish had never happened. There was a real cost to me though because I needlessly endured more emotional turmoil and that led to viewing myself as powerless. It is a very difficult pattern to break because we have our own anxiety about the outcome of being true to ourselves rather than people pleasing. Also, if we are honest the people who have been the beneficiaries of our people pleasing are not likely to enjoy when that dynamic changes.
In your opinion, what are the common root causes of people-pleasing behavior?
I think we may all agree that it is not a stretch to imagine a person who defaults to people pleasing most likely grew up with that model. If not modeled, people pleasing may have been affirmed by a person’s family of origin. A child can see that they can assuage their own anxieties and receive the validation from their parent or parents. Also, this could be about school interactions as we may very well also imagine that teachers would be delighted by a child who helps their classroom run smoother. It is a really smart strategy for children with social anxiety and shyness to keep the spotlight off of them in the classroom and amongst peers as well. I think also trauma as mentioned before can reinforce this really powerful skill so if it wasn’t learned as a child, it can very well be learned as an adult. I think also perfectionism can play a role when it is developed as an adult. Again we always want to consider the payoff of a behavior and the reinforcement socially.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact personal relationships?
It affects a relationship in the short term positively. It definitely can foster connection, each party may feel good about the interaction and as long as it continues there may be a symbiotic relationship. In the long term though, the person who is engaging in people pleasing is unfortunately sabotaging the relationship unconsciously. This is because in order to successfully maintain a people pleasing nature it involves the suppression of one’s true authentic self. This can lead to resentment, disappointment and feelings of insecurity in the relationship because on some level the person engaging in people pleasing may wonder if they would still be accepted if they were honoring their own needs and desires. From another perspective, I have found that even if we cannot consciously recognize it, people pleasing can feel like a manipulation. Manipulation is when someone tries to control or influence another person’s thoughts, feelings, or actions for their own benefit. It can happen in different ways, including using flattery and favors to get someone to do what they want. People might manipulate others because they want something or because they want to feel powerful or in control. Often we do not recognize that people pleasing can be a form of controlling the interaction or the relationship.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact professional relationships?
A supervisor’s dream employee! I am being facetious. Again, I am very realistic about the reasons we engage in people pleasing and when our financial lives are on the line it can be even more incentivizing. I think the issue here is the risk of burnout and resentment build up for the employee who cannot maintain healthy boundaries. This can even detrimentally affect relationships with colleagues who may be able to see that the precedent set by the people pleaser in the group does not bode well for the health of the team. Of course, we cannot throw the baby out with the bath water so I think some degree of people pleasing that is not likely to undermine the true nature of the relationship is well within reason. Helping others on the team when available, flexible and cooperative in company changes/protocols and even engaging in pro-social behaviors is a great use of putting others in front of ourselves.
How can long-term people-pleasing behavior impact an individual’s mental health?
In a variety of ways our mental health can be impacted by people pleasing, lets look at those ways now:
1. Chronic Stress: Constantly prioritizing others’ needs over your own can lead to chronic stress. The pressure to meet others’ expectations and maintain their approval can create a constant sense of anxiety and tension.
2. Low Self-Esteem: People-pleasers often derive their self-worth from others’ approval and validation. When their efforts to please others are not acknowledged or appreciated, it can lead to feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem.
3. Difficulty Setting Boundaries: People-pleasers often have difficulty saying no or setting boundaries because they fear rejection or conflict. This can lead to overcommitment, burnout, and feelings of resentment towards others.
4. Identity Loss: Constantly catering to others’ needs can cause people-pleasers to lose sight of their own desires, preferences, and values. Over time, they may struggle to identify their own identity separate from the expectations of others.
5. Relationship Issues: People-pleasers may attract individuals who take advantage of their accommodating nature, leading to one-sided or unhealthy relationships. Additionally, the lack of authenticity in relationships based on people-pleasing behaviors can hinder genuine connections.
6. Depression and Anxiety: Long-term people-pleasing behavior can contribute to the development of depression and anxiety disorders. The stress, low self-esteem, and lack of fulfillment can take a toll on mental health over time.
7. Physical Health Problems: Chronic stress resulting from people-pleasing behavior can also manifest in physical health problems such as headaches, digestive issues, and weakened immune function.
In your experience, what is the role of self-awareness in overcoming people-pleasing tendencies, and how can individuals cultivate it?
Self-awareness plays a crucial role in overcoming people-pleasing tendencies because it helps individuals recognize and understand their own thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. By becoming more self-aware, individuals can identify the underlying reasons behind their people-pleasing behavior, such as a fear of rejection or a desire for approval. This awareness enables them to challenge these beliefs and patterns and make conscious choices that align with their own values and needs. Cultivating self-awareness involves practices such as mindfulness, journaling, and reflection. These activities encourage individuals to observe their thoughts and emotions without judgment, allowing them to gain insights into their motivations and triggers. Additionally, seeking feedback from trusted friends or a therapist can provide valuable external perspectives that contribute to greater self-awareness. Overall, developing self-awareness empowers individuals to break free from the cycle of people-pleasing and live more authentically.
Here is the primary question of our discussion. Based on your experience or research, what are the “Five Strategies Or Techniques That Can Help Individuals Break Free From The Cycle Of People-Pleasing”? If you can, please share a story or an example for each.
1 . Set Boundaries: Practice saying “no” when necessary and establish clear boundaries in your personal and professional relationships. Recognize that it’s okay to prioritize your own needs and well-being because this will strengthen the bonds and connections you want in your life. Also, it is offering respect to the other when you trust them to honor your boundaries. A movie character that demonstrates a healthy use of boundaries is Elsa from Disney’s “Frozen” franchise. Throughout the films, Elsa demonstrates a clear understanding of her personal boundaries and the importance of prioritizing her own well-being. Initially, Elsa isolates herself from others to protect them from her ice powers, recognizing the potential harm she could cause. This decision reflects her awareness of her own limitations and the need to maintain distance for the safety of those around her. As the story progresses, Elsa learns to embrace her powers while also setting boundaries with others, asserting herself when necessary and refusing to be controlled or manipulated. By the end of the films, Elsa’s journey highlights the importance of self-acceptance, self-care, and establishing healthy boundaries in relationships.
2 . Identify Your Values: Reflect on your core values and beliefs. It can be as simple as pulling up a list from a search of all the values that you can reflect on in your life. Pick your top 5 and make decisions based on what aligns with your values rather than solely seeking approval from others. This can help you gain clarity and confidence in your choices. A celebrity who exemplifies living by a set of values is Leonardo DiCaprio. He is renowned for his advocacy and activism on environmental issues. DiCaprio has consistently used his platform and wealth to support various environmental causes, such as wildlife conservation, climate change awareness, and renewable energy initiatives. His environmental values are evident through his work with organizations like the Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation, which funds conservation projects around the world. DiCaprio is known for speaking out about the urgency of addressing climate change and has produced documentaries like “Before the Flood” to raise awareness about environmental issues. This has been controversial in some ways and yet he continues to move forward despite criticism.
3 . Practice Assertiveness: Communicate your thoughts, feelings, and preferences assertively, without apologizing excessively or seeking validation. Express yourself honestly and respectfully, even if it means facing potential disagreement or disapproval. The best way to start is with low risk opportunities such as at the local coffee shop when the order is not to your liking or with your best friend who will not reject you for prioritizing your opinions for instance. Slowly build yourself up to see that each assertive encounter does not mean the end of the world. A famous fictional character who demonstrates assertiveness well is Hermione Granger from the “Harry Potter” series by J.K. Rowling. Hermione is known for her intelligence, bravery, and unwavering commitment to her principles.
Throughout the series, Hermione consistently stands up for what she believes in and refuses to be sidelined or silenced. She speaks her mind, even when it’s unpopular or challenging, and she actively works to effect change in the wizarding world. One example of Hermione’s assertiveness is her advocacy for house-elves’ rights in “Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.” Despite facing opposition and ridicule from her peers, Hermione remains steadfast in her belief that house-elves deserve fair treatment and wages. She takes direct action by founding the Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare (S.P.E.W.) and actively campaigns for change within the wizarding community. Hermione’s assertiveness is also evident in her interactions with her friends, Harry and Ron. She is unafraid to challenge their decisions or speak up when she believes they are wrong, demonstrating her independence and confidence in her own judgment.
4 . Challenge Negative Thoughts: Notice and challenge any negative beliefs or self-critical thoughts that contribute to people-pleasing behavior. Remind yourself that you are worthy of respect and acceptance, regardless of others’ opinions or reactions. A mantra can carry you through when you might notice your anxiety increasing, such as “I respect myself and others when I am authentic”. In the TV show “The Good Place,” one of the main characters, Eleanor Shellstrop, undergoes a significant transformation in how she challenges her own negative thinking.
Initially, Eleanor is depicted as a selfish and morally questionable person who finds herself in the afterlife’s “Good Place” by mistake. Throughout the series, she struggles with feelings of guilt and unworthiness, believing that she doesn’t belong in the Good Place and is undeserving of happiness. However, as the show progresses, Eleanor begins to challenge her own negative thinking and beliefs about herself. She starts to question the nature of morality, personal responsibility, and what it means to be a good person. With the help of her friends and mentors, Eleanor gradually learns to confront her past mistakes and take responsibility for her actions. One pivotal moment occurs when Eleanor realizes that her negative self-perception is holding her back from growth and self-improvement. She acknowledges that she has the power to change and actively works towards becoming a better person, despite the challenges she faces.Through introspection, self-reflection, and the support of those around her, Eleanor gradually lets go of her negative thinking and embraces a more positive outlook on life. By the end of the series, she learns to forgive herself for her past transgressions and finds redemption through her actions and choices. Eleanor’s journey in “The Good Place” serves as a powerful example of how challenging negative thinking can lead to personal growth, self-discovery, and ultimately, a more fulfilling life.
5 . Focus on Self-Care: Prioritize self-care activities that nurture your physical, emotional, and mental well-being. Engage in activities that bring you joy, relaxation, and fulfillment. Taking care of yourself allows you to show up authentically and confidently in your interactions with others. For example, therapy plays a crucial role in self-care by providing individuals with a safe and supportive space to explore their thoughts, feelings, and experiences. A therapist can offer valuable insights, coping strategies, and tools to help individuals better understand themselves and navigate life’s challenges. Through therapy, individuals can develop healthier ways of coping with stress, managing emotions, and setting boundaries. Additionally, therapy can facilitate personal growth and self-discovery, leading to increased self-awareness, self-esteem, and resilience. Ultimately, therapy empowers individuals to prioritize their mental and emotional well-being, fostering a greater sense of self-care and overall fulfillment in life.
What steps should people pleasers take to establish healthier boundaries?
Establishing healthier boundaries starts with understanding your own needs and values. Take some time to think about what’s important to you and where you feel comfortable drawing the line. It’s okay to say no when something doesn’t align with your boundaries — remember, your well-being matters too. Practice speaking up assertively, using “I” statements to express your limits without feeling guilty. Surround yourself with supportive people who understand and respect your boundaries. And don’t forget to take care of yourself along the way — self-care is essential for maintaining healthy boundaries and a happier, more fulfilling life.
How can someone who is naturally empathetic maintain their compassion while becoming more assertive?
If you’re naturally empathetic and want to become more assertive while still keeping your compassion intact, here are some tips. First, remember that assertiveness isn’t about being harsh or uncaring — it’s about expressing yourself confidently and respectfully. You can maintain your compassion by considering others’ feelings and perspectives while still advocating for your own needs. Practice setting boundaries and saying no when necessary, but do so kindly and with empathy. You can also focus on active listening and validating others’ emotions, even when you’re asserting yourself. And don’t forget to be gentle with yourself as you navigate this journey of growth — it’s okay to make mistakes along the way. With practice and patience, you can find a balance between assertiveness and compassion that feels right for you.
What are the most common misconceptions about people pleasers, and how do these misconceptions affect their journey toward recovery?
Common misconceptions about people pleasers often include the belief that they are weak-willed or lack assertiveness, despite many being quite resilient. Another misconception is that people pleasers are always happy and accommodating, when in reality, they may experience stress and anxiety from prioritizing others over themselves. Additionally, some may wrongly assume that people pleasers engage in their behaviors for attention or validation, overlooking the deeper roots of fear of rejection or conflict. While people pleasers may appear selfless, their behavior often stems from a need for validation, leading to neglect of their own well-being. These misconceptions can hinder a people pleaser’s journey toward recovery by reinforcing negative self-perceptions and making it harder for them to recognize and address their own needs. Overcoming these misconceptions involves challenging them with empathy and understanding, both from oneself and from others, as well as recognizing the strength it takes to break free from people-pleasing patterns.
What role can therapy or counseling play in helping individuals overcome people-pleasing behavior?
Therapy or counseling can be a big help in shaking off people-pleasing habits. In these sessions, folks can dig deep into why they feel the need to always say yes and put others’ needs before their own. Therapists help them understand where these patterns come from — maybe it’s past experiences or a fear of rejection. Then, they work on setting healthy boundaries and boosting self-esteem. It’s like having a coach in your corner, cheering you on as you learn to stand up for yourself and prioritize your own well-being. Therapy provides a safe space to explore feelings and practice new ways of relating to others, which can lead to more fulfilling and authentic relationships.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I think a really simple and powerful tool that I do want to recreate for a modern take is the book club. I am highly interested in how therapeutic book clubs could allow friends, family, neighbors and general community members to come together in a support group style format. I think that mental health treatment is of the utmost importance, but I am also inclined to think that returning to the most basic, fundamental need for belonging and community could help so many people have their needs met. Loneliness is an epidemic right now and we know it has real consequences to mortality and quality of life. I am going to be running my own therapeutic book clubs virtually for the state of Texas, but to be honest with a good selection and a vested group of members any book club could really make a big impact in lives, relationships and the health of our communities.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
I am at https://mychangeofplans.com/blog for more topics related to relationships, attachment and recovering from break ups.
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
About the Interviewers:
Brooke Young is a multipassionate publicist, public speaking mentor, and communication consulting. She works with a wide range of clients across the globe, and across a diverse range of industries, to help them create, develop, and promote powerful messages through heart-centered storytelling. She has formerly worked On-Air with FOX Sports, competed in the Miss America Organization, and is the Author of a Children’s Book. She frequently works with children as a professional speaker where she educates on Volunteering and Therapy Dogs. She has over a decade of professional performing background and finds joy in sparking creative passions for her clients.
Yitzi Weiner is a journalist, author, and the founder of Authority Magazine, one of Medium’s largest publications. Authority Magazine is devoted to sharing in depth “thought leadership interview series” featuring people who are authorities in Business, Tech, Entertainment, Wellness, and Social Impact.
At Authority Magazine, Yitzi has conducted or coordinated thousands of empowering interviews with prominent Authorities like Shaquille O’Neal, Peyton Manning, Floyd Mayweather, Paris Hilton, Baron Davis, Jewel, Flo Rida, Kelly Rowland, Kerry Washington, Bobbi Brown, Daymond John, Seth Godin, Guy Kawasaki, Lori Greiner, Robert Herjavec, Alicia Silverstone, Lindsay Lohan, Cal Ripkin Jr., David Wells, Jillian Michaels, Jenny Craig, John Sculley, Matt Sorum, Derek Hough, Mika Brzezinski, Blac Chyna, Perez Hilton, Joseph Abboud, Rachel Hollis, Daniel Pink, and Kevin Harrington
Yitzi is also the CEO of Authority Magazine’s Thought Leader Incubator which helps business leaders to become known as an authority in their field, by interviewing prominent CEOs, writing a daily syndicated column, writing a book, booking high level leaders on their podcast, and attending exclusive events.
Kathryn Chacra Of Change of Plans Therapy On How to Recover From Being a People Pleaser was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.