An Interview With Brooke Young & Yitzi Weiner
Get radically ok with the fact that some people won’t like you. This can be a new concept for many, and comes with a great deal of discomfort. Start playing the scenario all the way to the end. You say no and someone is upset, then what? When we play the scene out to the end, we often realize that our worst fears aren’t likely to happen. Besides, if someone is so offended that you don’t want to join their book club that they stop being friends with you, you don’t want to be their friend anyhow.
In today’s society, the tendency to prioritize others’ needs and expectations over one’s own can lead to significant emotional and psychological challenges. In this series, we would like to explore the complex dynamics of people-pleasing behavior and its impact on individual well-being and relationships. We would like to discuss the root causes of people-pleasing behavior, its effects on personal and professional life, and practical steps for cultivating healthier relationships and self-esteem. We hope that this series can provide insights, strategies, and real-life experiences that can help individuals navigate and overcome the pitfalls of being a people pleaser. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Audrey Schoen.
Audrey Schoen ia a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice and a business coach for other therapists. Since receiving her Masters Degree in 2010, she has been fortunate to have opportunities to work with everyone from homeless domestic abuse survivors to CEO’s. Audrey brings a breadth of experience to her work, including depth therapy and brainspotting, to heal problems at their core.
In her role as a therapist, Audrey is dedicated to helping adults and couples create calm and congruent lives, with a special interest in supporting entrepreneurs and first responder spouses. While her business coaching focuses on helping therapists fight burnout and find balance by creating a sustainable and profitable private practice. As a twin mom and recovering people pleaser herself, she understands the complexities of balancing self, work, and life.
Thank you so much for your time! I know that you are a very busy person. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us your “Origin Story”? Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in a middle class family in San Jose, CA. My mother immigrated from Italy as a pre-teen, and stayed home with my brother and I, and my father was a police officer and often worked nights and weekends. I had what most would consider a good childhood, but no one escapes childhood unscathed. Growing up I loved learning, excelled in school, but always wondered if I was good enough. Good enough in school, in friendships, and especially for my father. I carried this fear into adulthood. While it’s a big reason I pushed myself to succeed and accomplish, it also chipped away at confidence and I would often get stuck ruminating and doubting myself. As an adult I have been incredibly fortunate to repair my relationship with myself through therapy and honest, albeit difficult, conversations with my parents.
Can you tell us a bit about what you do professionally, and what brought you to this specific career path?
Growing up I always said I wanted to be an artist. When I was about a year into junior college, my mom asked me what I might want to do. I told her that I think I might want to be a therapist. She casually responded “why would you want to listen to people’s problems all day? That sounds miserable.” I spent the next 2 years studying art and design. When I transferred to state, the major I selected was impacted, so I took psychology classes to fill my schedule, and it became clear that this was my calling.
I also recall the first time I saw a client. I was incredibly nervous, I went over the disclosures and informed consent, I sat back and asked “what brings you” and in that moment felt a warm light wash over me. I knew I was exactly where I was supposed to be. I absolutely love being a therapist.
I also knew that I wanted a career that would allow me to be able to show up as a mom for my kids, and give me the flexibility I need for my own wellbeing. Being a therapist and having a private practice has done just that. I have been able to create a life and career that is balanced and supports my family.
Thank you for all that. Let’s now turn to the main focus of our discussion about People Pleasing. To make sure that we are all on the same page, let’s begin with a simple definition. What does “People Pleaser” mean to you?
Being a people pleaser means putting others needs and emotions above your own, regardless of the impact it has on you. Often a person’s self worth is tied up in their ability to control how another person perceives them. Your wellbeing and identity are tied to making sure that everyone is happy and likes you.
On the surface, it seems like being a person who wants to please others is a good thing. Can you help articulate a few of the challenges that come with being a people pleaser?
People pleasing is something that women are culturally conditioned for. We are often offered praise for caretaking and being selfless. Many women wear people pleasing as a badge of honor. In reality, people pleasers are actually working very hard to control how others see them. The idea that someone could dislike them is so intolerable, they will go to great lengths to prevent it.
Does being a people pleaser give you certain advantages? Can you explain?
There absolutely are short term advantages to people pleasing behaviors. Who doesn’t appreciate someone who is accommodating, easy going, and always available when you need them? Both at work and at home, people might come to you most because you are always willing to help, making you feel important and needed. Often people pleasers are highly aware and attuned to others needs and emotions, making others feel cared for. This comes at a great cost, and is not sustainable long term. Eventually people pleasers start to burn out and resentment builds.
Can you describe a moment in your life when you realized that your own people-pleasing behavior was more harmful than helpful?
As a mother of twins we struggled a lot with sleep, and with a husband in law enforcement, I put a tremendous amount of effort into protecting his sleep due to the dangerous nature of his work. That often meant I spent most nights sleeping in my kids room with them. As the kids got older my husband expressed a desire to have us back in the same bed at night. I spent months trying new sleeping arrangements, hoping to discover the magical solution. Of course I wanted to share a bed with my husband again, but my motivation was primarily to make my husband happy, while also meeting my kids needs for safety and connection at night. I knew my sleep would suffer, still I kept at it for months thinking there had to be a way. Not only did I lose sleep, but everyone’s sleep suffered. One I allowed myself to really listen to my gut and return to sharing a room with them, we all slept much better.
In your opinion, what are the common root causes of people-pleasing behavior?
It’s important to recognize that people pleasing is actually a controlling behavior, demanding that others love us, and going to great lengths to make sure that happens. This often starts in childhood, seeing a parent (usually mom) model these same behaviors, we learn that others happiness is the priority. Children who grow up with parents who are either reactive or disconnected adapt by working hard to make their parents happy to maintain connection and peace in the family. This becomes essential for their survival growing up, and they take these adaptations into adulthood. As a child, disconnection is perceived by the brain as a life threatening event. As adults, we experience the same visceral fear unconsciously, which reinforces people pleasing behaviors.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact personal relationships?
At the start of relationships, others might feel really special because the people pleaser really makes them a priority. As the relationship progresses, however, these same behaviors start to take attention away from the relationship, as the people pleaser overextends themself with friends and at work, and those who once felt special can begin to feel unimportant.
Resentment also builds over time. When your needs are consistently not met, you are living out of congruence. These resentments can build into anger and conflict as the people pleaser starts to wonder when their friend or partner will return the favor. They find themselves in relationships that feel like a one way street, expecting that the other will voluntarily make them a priority, despite never making their needs or wants known.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact professional relationships?
It’s not uncommon for people pleasers to take on more responsibilities than their team members. There seems to be this perception that they should be able to do it all. And the idea of saying no to something means that they have somehow failed. They worry that admitting their plate is over full will disappoint their supervisor, or worse, put their job at risk. Ultimately, overworking increases the chances of burnout and often invades personal time.
How can long-term people-pleasing behavior impact an individual’s mental health?
Being a people pleaser means living inauthentically. Hobbies and interests become something they do “when they have time,” which we all know is never. Even basic self care becomes viewed as indulgent or selfish because it takes time and energy away from the thing you should be doing, taking care of others. People pleasers are at much higher risk for anxiety, depression, and burnout. Building resentment can only be suppressed for so long, and results in explosive arguments over small things.
In my clinical work, I have seen how this leads to a loss of a connection with yourself and your identity.
In your experience, what is the role of self-awareness in overcoming people-pleasing tendencies, and how can individuals cultivate it?
You cannot establish boundaries unless you know what they need to be. That requires a certain level of self awareness. Awareness of what you want and need, your limits, what feels good, and what doesn’t. With clients, we often start by focusing on the physical and emotional sensations that come up when engaging in people pleasing behaviors, this helps build that awareness muscle, and they are better able to listen to their intuitive knowledge and set boundaries to honor that.
Based on your experience or research, what are the “Five Strategies Or Techniques That Can Help Individuals Break Free From The Cycle Of People-Pleasing”?
1 . Get radically ok with the fact that some people won’t like you. This can be a new concept for many, and comes with a great deal of discomfort. Start playing the scenario all the way to the end. You say no and someone is upset, then what? When we play the scene out to the end, we often realize that our worst fears aren’t likely to happen. Besides, if someone is so offended that you don’t want to join their book club that they stop being friends with you, you don’t want to be their friend anyhow.
2 . Ask yourself, “what do I need and want?” Many of my clients never even asked themselves this question before therapy, and struggled to answer it for a long time. When you make this a regular practice, you get more familiar with your needs and wants, both of which are valid. You begin to recognize the things that make you a better person, partner, parent, etc.
3 . Examine your unconscious narratives. So often our behaviors are driven by rules and expectations that exist outside of conscious awareness. When we shine light on them, we have a chance to examine them. While these rules once served us, helping us navigate our environment growing up, they no longer do.
4 . Schedule yourself first. People pleasing means often putting yourself last, if at all. Breaking the cycle requires making yourself a priority the same way you make others a priority. If your kid needed to go to physical therapy twice a week, you would figure it out. Give yourself the same gift. Instead of taking care of your needs and wants “when you have time,” put yourself on the calendar.
5 . Be gentle with yourself. I still cross my own boundaries, overcommit, or deny my own needs at times. Instead of getting critical, I like to think of these moments as experiments and reminders. At times I experiment with new or different boundaries, and I am reminded why I made them in the first place. It’s OK to get it wrong and need a reminder from time to time. Needs, wants, and boundaries will change overtime, so you are allowed to experiment.
What steps should people pleasers take to establish healthier boundaries?
Setting healthier boundaries isn’t something that happens overnight, it’s a learning process. The first step is figuring out what your non-negotiable needs are. What are the things that make you a better human? If I skip my workouts, I don’t function nearly as well, I get irritable, and I’m less patient and present with my kids and spouse. When you can connect self care and boundaries to actually being better able to care for others, it becomes easier to hold to them.
Another important step is to remember that no is a complete sentience. You don’t need an excuse to say no. How you prioritize your time is no one’s business but your own. Plus, when we offer an excuse, we open ourselves up to rebuttal. It can be helpful to have a few kind responses scripted in advance like, “thank you for thinking of me, but that’s not something I can commit to right now.”
It’s also perfectly ok to take some time to think. Instead of feeling pressure to give an answer right now, let them know you will get back to them. Give yourself time to imagine how it would feel to say yes vs no so you can make an aligned decision and work through any worries you have about disappointing them.
How can someone who is naturally empathetic maintain their compassion while becoming more assertive?
Caring about how someone feels and doing whatever it takes to make them feel better are not the same thing. When we fully accept that our boundaries will sometimes disappoint or impact other people, we make room for empathy. It’s ok to say “I cannot do that and I understand how that is disappointing for you.” This is setting boundaries with loving kindness.
What are the most common misconceptions about people pleasers, and how do these misconceptions affect their journey toward recovery?
People pleasers tend to be very caring, empathetic and attuned, and they are often praised for these qualities. One misconception is that people pleasers are fulfilled by caretaking activities. Not only does the people pleaser make others a priority, they do it with a smile on their face. Because even expressing discontent with their life and circumstances could make others unhappy. When the people pleaser is ready to make changes, the people in their life might feel confused, even deceived. In reality, relationships with those who cannot tolerate your authenticity will end, while those who support your changes will stick around.
What role can therapy or counseling play in helping individuals overcome people-pleasing behavior?
Therapy is incredibly helpful for overcoming people pleasing. In counseling, you’re able to uncover and repair the root causes of your people pleasing behaviors, and get support to slowly make changes to your habits and relationships. This can be a scary process. Many worry about losing important relationships, fearing that the people in their lives will become angry and leave. In therapy you have a chance to learn new skills and implement small changes over time, while having a place to hash it all out along the way. As a therapist, watching a client step into authenticity, set healthy boundaries, improve their relationships, and reclaim their wellbeing is one of the most gratifying experiences.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I would change the narrative that women are conditioned to believe from birth about their role as selfless caregivers. The pressure put on women by society and even other women perpetuates the idea that self sacrifice is somehow saintly. Self care isn’t selfish, it’s essential to our wellbeing. Taking care of our needs and wants makes us better people, partners and parents. I am a better mother because I have an identity outside of caring for others, and I don’t need to feel guilty for making time to make sure my needs are taken care of.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
I currently have a private practice located in Roseville, CA, and work with people online throughout CA and TX. People can visit my website at www.AudreyLMFT.com
You can also find me on both instagram and TikTok @audrey_out_loud.
Fellow therapists can learn more about my business coaching and courses at www.balancedprivatepractice.com
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
About the Interviewers:
Brooke Young is a multipassionate publicist, public speaking mentor, and communication consulting. She works with a wide range of clients across the globe, and across a diverse range of industries, to help them create, develop, and promote powerful messages through heart-centered storytelling. She has formerly worked On-Air with FOX Sports, competed in the Miss America Organization, and is the Author of a Children’s Book. She frequently works with children as a professional speaker where she educates on Volunteering and Therapy Dogs. She has over a decade of professional performing background and finds joy in sparking creative passions for her clients.
Yitzi Weiner is a journalist, author, and the founder of Authority Magazine, one of Medium’s largest publications. Authority Magazine is devoted to sharing in depth “thought leadership interview series” featuring people who are authorities in Business, Tech, Entertainment, Wellness, and Social Impact.
At Authority Magazine, Yitzi has conducted or coordinated thousands of empowering interviews with prominent Authorities like Shaquille O’Neal, Peyton Manning, Floyd Mayweather, Paris Hilton, Baron Davis, Jewel, Flo Rida, Kelly Rowland, Kerry Washington, Bobbi Brown, Daymond John, Seth Godin, Guy Kawasaki, Lori Greiner, Robert Herjavec, Alicia Silverstone, Lindsay Lohan, Cal Ripkin Jr., David Wells, Jillian Michaels, Jenny Craig, John Sculley, Matt Sorum, Derek Hough, Mika Brzezinski, Blac Chyna, Perez Hilton, Joseph Abboud, Rachel Hollis, Daniel Pink, and Kevin Harrington
Yitzi is also the CEO of Authority Magazine’s Thought Leader Incubator which helps business leaders to become known as an authority in their field, by interviewing prominent CEOs, writing a daily syndicated column, writing a book, booking high level leaders on their podcast, and attending exclusive events.
Audrey Schoen On How to Recover From Being a People Pleaser was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.