An Interview With Brooke Young & Yitzi Weiner
Delay committing to something. We rarely need to respond and commit at the time of a request. I encourage people to respond with, “I’ll have to check my calendar and get back to you.” This allows time to pass so emotions can regulate. This helps avoid commitment out of impulse instead of desire. I encourage people to take about 24-hours to truly decide and respond to ensure they are reflecting on their needs over against automatic conditioning.
In today’s society, the tendency to prioritize others’ needs and expectations over one’s own can lead to significant emotional and psychological challenges. In this series, we would like to explore the complex dynamics of people-pleasing behavior and its impact on individual well-being and relationships. We would like to discuss the root causes of people-pleasing behavior, its effects on personal and professional life, and practical steps for cultivating healthier relationships and self-esteem. We hope that this series can provide insights, strategies, and real-life experiences that can help individuals navigate and overcome the pitfalls of being a people pleaser. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Marie Selleck.
Marie Selleck received her Masters in Social work in 2016 from Western Michigan University, after 6-years of previous work in the mental health field. Through her ongoing work, she has received advanced training and credentials in Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT) for treating Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), as well as substance use disorders. Marie expanded her reach in 2022 and became an empowerment coach specializing in helping women heal from the impacts of their emotionally unavailable mother so that they can in turn raise confident and loving children. Marie has a passion for helping women unlearn their childhood conditioning which leads to people pleasing, indirect communication, and limiting and negative beliefs about themselves and the world. She aims to helps families build strong foundations for lifelong resilience and break intergenerational trauma. Marie owns her own private practice in Grand Rapids, MI and loves spending time with her husband and two kids.
Thank you so much for your time! I know that you are a very busy person. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us your “Origin Story”? Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in a middle-class household with both of my parents in the same home until the age of 10, when they divorced. My mother was the breadwinner in the home and was a professor at a local university, and my father was mostly absent and could never hold down a job. After my parents divorced, my mother received full custody of my sister and I due to my father’s lack of reliability along with other excentric beliefs and behaviors. We saw him, but never consistently. I spent a lot of my childhood and young adult life leaning into, and then pulling away from my relationship with my father. I was always trying to navigate and understand his behaviors, as well as figure out where I fit into his life, or didn’t.
Can you tell us a bit about what you do professionally, and what brought you to this specific career path?
I grew up with my mother’s side of the family placing high value in volunteering and giving back so this eventually led me into the Social Work field. I received my Masters in Social Work in 2016 and went on to provide therapy with very vulnerable populations who had experience a great deal of trauma and substance use. I recognized early on that I connected well with women who grew up with emotionally unavailable mothers and found I could help them understand how their beliefs and behaviors were adaptive to how they grew up. I found myself emphasizing that there was nothing innately wrong with them, and rather they just needed strategies to unlearn some deep junk that had led to shame. The foundation of the therapy I offer is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). The process is all about recognizing that thoughts and beliefs lead to certain feelings, such as shame. Wholeness and health come with evaluating the inaccuracies in the beliefs and where they come from. For example, people pleasing behaviors are the result of a belief, “If I make them happy, they won’t leave me,” or “If I don’t help them, I’m selfish.” These beliefs usually solidify in childhood based on the beliefs and messages of the people around you, and they become “core beliefs.” With CBT, we have discussions about what makes the statements inaccurate in themselves, and in turn, leads to an increase in self-awareness, reduces the unwanted and distressful feelings (shame), and associated behaviors.
Thank you for all that. Let’s now turn to the main focus of our discussion about People Pleasing. To make sure that we are all on the same page, let’s begin with a simple definition. What does “People Pleaser” mean to you?
People pleasing is evident when an individual spends an extra-ordinary amount of energy in relationships as they try to resolve other people’s difficult feelings or solve other people’s problems. The motivation underlying people pleasing is the belief that our own value and worth is proven if we can make others happy.
On the surface, it seems like being a person who wants to please others is a good thing. Can you help articulate a few of the challenges that come with being a people pleaser?
People pleasing behavior and motivation has many facets. When you spend an extra-ordinary amount of time trying to resolve other people’s feelings or solve other people’s problems, you begin neglecting yourself. You can tell yourself that if you don’t help someone else you are selfish, or a bad person. You end up treating others as MORE important than you, instead of JUST as important. The result is problems with being able to say, “no,” or balance priorities because you have already pre-determined that you HAVE to sacrifice for others, even at the expense of yourself.
Does being a people pleaser give you certain advantages? Can you explain?
Honestly, I haven’t seen people-pleasing behavior as having many advantages because it goes beyond behaviors. Underneath the behaviors are core thoughts and beliefs about yourself — that you NEED to help, otherwise you are a bad person. Simply being kind is different than being a “people pleaser.” People pleasers’ care for others is excessive and leads to self-neglect. People pleasers do, however, have a strong sense of empathy and this can have immense advantages in problem solving and careers, if the thoughts and behaviors can be understood and controlled to prevent burnout. People pleasers have to learn healthy boundaries and understand the internal value of care for themselves, in order to not be ruled by their empathy.
Can you describe a moment in your life when you realized that your own people-pleasing behavior was more harmful than helpful?
When I was a teenager I associated with some unhealthy people, particularly guys. I’m sure I enjoyed the attention, probably, because I did not receive much attention from my dad. One particular guy was extremely unhealthy. He was in his early 20’s when I was 16. He didn’t have a job and drank and used drugs. I felt the need to fix his life and take care of him. I would buy him things he needed with my own money, convince my mom to drive him places, and let him borrow things like our PS2. In hindsight, the people pleasing was about avoiding my own guilt at having a stable life. I also got affirmation from him when I helped him, even if he was taking advantage of me. The relationship, of course, turned extremely toxic and he ended up stealing things from me. Because people pleasing is really about avoiding guilt than helping someone else, it is very easy to be taken advantage of by people who know how to use guilt to control our behaviors.
In your opinion, what are the common root causes of people-pleasing behavior?
I have noticed most people pleasing behaviors coming from not being treated as a priority as a child, leading to a belief that you are “not good enough.” This situation exhibits itself at various levels and for so many uncontrollable reasons. Children who grow up with emotionally unavailable parents find ways to maintain connection to people around them to survive. Many times the children attempt to make everyone around them happy, specifically their parent. In fact, this can also become their ‘role’ in their family. People pleasing becomes about making other people happy out of fear of the loss of connection. This fear of loss can even be traced all the way back to birth and our biological need for connection with the resulting behaviors that we develop in response as efforts to maintain any connection we can.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact personal relationships?
People pleasing is all about trying to feel “good enough” and provide yourself “worth” in an external way. The behavior is evident in individuals who struggle with insecurity because they have difficulty in being able to validate their worth internally. People pleasers are very vulnerable to abuse and are subject to manipulative relationships because they seek external validation and have an intense fear of making others upset or feel bad. They allow their worth to be easily influenced by others rather than having an unwavering internal center. When one relies on others for validation space is left for toxic people to come in and use guilt and shame to convince people pleasers to care for them or do things they do not want to do. On a less extreme level, people pleasers have very poor communication skills. They avoid difficult conversations because they assume all difficult conversations will lead to others rejecting them. They also avoid asking for help which leads to a build-up of resentment in relationships.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact professional relationships?
When someone people pleases, they lack healthy boundaries. In a work environment, people pleasers tend to take on more than they can handle and never communicate to their supervisors that they do not have the time to accomplish certain tasks. They are more likely to get burned out, which unfortunately perpetuates the underlying beliefs that they are “not good enough.”
How can long-term people-pleasing behavior impact an individual’s mental health?
As mentioned previously, people pleasing is a result of feeling “not good enough” in all areas of your life, and the belief is that if you make everyone else happy, or do things for others, you will finally be “good enough.” The problem is, worth is not determined by others. Thus people pleasing leads to a great deal of anxiety. A person is constantly spending mental energy trying to determine what others’ need before they need it, as well as a constant battle of over-commitment and self-sacrifice. People pleasing can lead to significant declines in mental health with depression and anxiety from taking on too much to constantly worrying about what others think.
In your experience, what is the role of self-awareness in overcoming people-pleasing tendencies, and how can individuals cultivate it?
Overcoming people pleasing means being able to reflect on the reason you are people pleasing in the first place. One can cultivate self-awareness through slowing down and listening to your gut. One strategy is to ask questions of yourself, like “what am I afraid will happen if I say no, or don’t offer help?” This process involves the cultivation of awareness over whether the fear is realistic or helpful.
Based on your experience or research, what are the “Five Strategies Or Techniques That Can Help Individuals Break Free From The Cycle Of People-Pleasing”?
1 . Delay committing to something. We rarely need to respond and commit at the time of a request. I encourage people to respond with, “I’ll have to check my calendar and get back to you.” This allows time to pass so emotions can regulate. This helps avoid commitment out of impulse instead of desire. I encourage people to take about 24-hours to truly decide and respond to ensure they are reflecting on their needs over against automatic conditioning.
2 . Take into account not only if you CAN do something, but if you WANT to do it. For example, perhaps there is a voluntary lunch group beginning at work and your boss invited you to attend. This time of day is when you love sitting and eating your lunch alone, or going on walks to clear your head. You might feel guilty at first for declining to participate, but you feel better after you decline because it does not interest you.
3 . Learn to say “no” assertively. When you respond to a request with pauses, with your head down, and words like “maybe,” room is left for the other person to try to convince you. I describe this as “letting the flies in.” You want to open the door, make your statement, and close the door quickly and assertively without time for flies (convincing) to get in. Some ways to decline requests assertively are as follows.
- “I can’t do [x], but I’m open to [y]”
- “Thank you for considering me, but my plate is already full at the moment.”
4 . Identify the thoughts/beliefs that lead you to feel guilt about saying “no” and evaluate them for inaccuracies. For example:
- “If I don’t say yes, then they’ll be disappointed.” If this is the thought, it is most likely an assumption you are making about the other person’s feelings. Ask yourself about the character of the other person and if they would actually be disappointed in you, or if this is just your own fear. What is more likely the outcome of declining?
- “If I don’t say yes, then they will get angry.” If this is the thought, ask yourself, has that person lost their temper with you before? This again, is probably an assumption, and not necessarily accurate. Would they be understanding of you are declining to help for the reasons you have? If they did get angry, would it actually be at you, or about the situation?
- “I should be able to do it all.” If this is the thought, ask yourself if you are expecting too much of yourself. Are you expecting yourself to be able to commit to things beyond humanly possible, such as perfection. Also, are you sacrificing your own care, and in turn, actually able to do less?
5 . Practice self-compassion. Instead of harshly criticizing yourself when you are unable to do something, acknowledge and honor your feelings. If you are tired, acknowledge it and act accordingly. Remind yourself that it is okay to care for yourself, just as you would expect others to do for themselves. We always treat others better than ourselves, so turn the narrative inwards and remind yourself that you are just as important as everyone else and need to treat yourself accordingly.
What steps should people pleasers take to establish healthier boundaries?
The first step to establishing healthier boundaries is observing what you want and/or don’t want. For example, maybe you have determined that you don’t want to work past 4pm, and don’t want to plan two busy weekends in a row. You also might determine that you want to take a walk every day during lunch and you want to sit at the table every night for dinner. Once you have solidified these things, boundaries with yourself and others can flow from those solid “wants” and “don’t wants.” If you end up getting emails at work around 3:45pm, you will think twice on whether you respond to them and work past four, or wait until the next day. The same goes to planning two full weekends of friends or house chores in a row. You have previously determined that you get too exhausted when you cram your weekends so you will think twice about what you agree to do.
How can someone who is naturally empathetic maintain their compassion while becoming more assertive?
Deeply compassionate people are natural caregivers and show immense care for others. The trick is to remind yourself that you cannot do your best work and give the best care, if you are not at YOUR best. As a therapist, this is something I have had to learn on a deep level. I have had to acknowledge my limitations (and I HATE limitations) and understand that if don’t care for myself and give myself time to rest, it negatively impacts my clients and my ability to do good work with them. Assertiveness comes into play by declining to get involved in certain extra curricular activities, or managing the number of friends you see on certain weekends, and even declining to bring my kids to places and instead doing things at home. I also have to work to stick to my work schedule and hours and not let my heart and desire to help people over-ride my need for rest so that I can actually be effective and offer current clients the highest level of care. Assertiveness truly begins in the mind as an evaluation of your own thoughts and why you have them. I have to remind myself regularly that I am not declining because I am mean or don’t care. I am declining because I DO care about both them AND me.
What are the most common misconceptions about people pleasers, and how do these misconceptions affect their journey toward recovery?
A common misconception is that people-pleasers are always happy. They are what are called “internalizers.” They keep difficult feelings and internal conflicts to themselves for fear of burdening others and thus not pleasing others. They typically experience higher than average levels of anxiety and depression due to constantly trying to meet the perceived needs of others and their happiness, instead of their own. One of the challenges that this brings is that when a people pleaser is ready to work on boundaries and internal worth, others around them can be thrown off by their new behaviors and boundary-construction. Other people know the people-pleaser as always available to them, and as this changes, some people may become unhappy. Through the process of change, unhealthy and toxic people start to fall out of their life in a somewhat natural way. The people who respect and love you are happy with your growth. This is a challenging process that includes some grieving over lost relationships.
What role can therapy or counseling play in helping individuals overcome people-pleasing behavior?
Therapy is a huge help to overcoming people pleasing behaviors. Therapy helps increase awareness for the reasons you have the behaviors in the first place. It is important to understand that people pleasing is an adaptive behavior that is typically rooted in childhood and grounded in a need for connection and affirmation of one’s worth. Therapy can help you identify the negative thoughts and beliefs that lead you to people please, and pull out the inaccuracies, so you feel less guilt and shame and more confidence and control.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I would love to begin a movement to help women understand that all their behaviors make sense based on their lifetime experiences! These behaviors don’t mean that there is something “wrong” with any specific person, they are behaviors that served a purpose at one time in their life, and now cause distress. Many layers of conditioning exist for women that arise out of biological, generational, societal, racial, relational, and cultural contexts. I want to empower women to break cycles by empowering them to care for themselves in the way that they have been conditioned to care for everyone else. I want them to also raise empowered children of all genders that continue this work toward health and balance.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
I currently run my own private therapy practice in Michigan and specialize in PTSD, perfectionism anxiety, and substance abuse. People can check out my website www.marieselletherapy.com and my Instagram @fearless_fern_therapy.
I also run an international coaching program to help women heal from the impacts of their emotionally unavailable mother. People can check out my website www.meselleckcoaching.com and my Instagram @parent_wound_coach
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
About the Interviewers:
Brooke Young is a multipassionate publicist, public speaking mentor, and communication consulting. She works with a wide range of clients across the globe, and across a diverse range of industries, to help them create, develop, and promote powerful messages through heart-centered storytelling. She has formerly worked On-Air with FOX Sports, competed in the Miss America Organization, and is the Author of a Children’s Book. She frequently works with children as a professional speaker where she educates on Volunteering and Therapy Dogs. She has over a decade of professional performing background and finds joy in sparking creative passions for her clients.
Yitzi Weiner is a journalist, author, and the founder of Authority Magazine, one of Medium’s largest publications. Authority Magazine is devoted to sharing in depth “thought leadership interview series” featuring people who are authorities in Business, Tech, Entertainment, Wellness, and Social Impact.
At Authority Magazine, Yitzi has conducted or coordinated thousands of empowering interviews with prominent Authorities like Shaquille O’Neal, Peyton Manning, Floyd Mayweather, Paris Hilton, Baron Davis, Jewel, Flo Rida, Kelly Rowland, Kerry Washington, Bobbi Brown, Daymond John, Seth Godin, Guy Kawasaki, Lori Greiner, Robert Herjavec, Alicia Silverstone, Lindsay Lohan, Cal Ripkin Jr., David Wells, Jillian Michaels, Jenny Craig, John Sculley, Matt Sorum, Derek Hough, Mika Brzezinski, Blac Chyna, Perez Hilton, Joseph Abboud, Rachel Hollis, Daniel Pink, and Kevin Harrington
Yitzi is also the CEO of Authority Magazine’s Thought Leader Incubator which helps business leaders to become known as an authority in their field, by interviewing prominent CEOs, writing a daily syndicated column, writing a book, booking high level leaders on their podcast, and attending exclusive events.
Marie Selleck of M E Selleck Coaching On How to Recover From Being a People Pleaser was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.