Being an artist and being a musician are different. Being a musician is being good and reliable at your instrument and honing your musical skills. Being a good artist is being an amazing storyteller, a great communicator, and a person other people can see themselves in feel empowered
As a part of our series about stars who are making an important social impact, I had the pleasure of interviewing TONIE.
TONIE is doing their very best to help you feel comfortable in your own skin. The LA-native writes and produces each indie pop tracks from the comfort of their skylit home studio in Brooklyn, NY — a perfect backdrop for the emotional vulnerability that colors their lyrics.They hope that through their combination of vulnerability and bombastic energy, listeners will experience catharsis and feel empowered to embrace who they are fully, without holding back.
Thank you so much for joining us on this interview series. Can you share with us the backstory that led you to this career path?
Music has been a part of my life ever since my mother forced me into piano lessons at age 4. To her, being able to study music was a way to access the American Dream, to give me the opportunities she never got growing up in Vietnam. However, my parents always encouraged me to keep music a hobby rather than a career, so instead I chose the “safe” path of becoming a software engineer even though my heart knew it wasn’t the path meant for me.
I didn’t pursue music full time until I gave myself the permission to fully be myself. Growing up with Asian parents, I had both familial and societal pressure to conform to the archetype of a good Asian kid: good job, good family, good life. I struggled with seeing myself as anything else until I moved to New York City where I met people who were more like me: artists, working creatives, queer, nonbinary/trans people. These people, my New York family showed me another way of living and inspired me to finally pursue music full time. They showed me it’s attainable if you shape your life around your own desires rather than try to conform to what’s expected of you.
It has been said that our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I cringe at everything I put on social media the first few years I was an artist. I tried so many gimmicks like dancing text, making memes of myself with bad jokes, and wrapping myself and my music in a sheen of sarcasm.
But what we’re all craving these days is connection in an increasingly lonely world. As soon as I dropped the pretenses and started talking about my life as I would talk to any of my friends, I found that strangers became people who would follow me and my journey, listen to my music, tell me how they’ve connected with my lyrics and my life story.
The lesson here is that being yourself and telling your story is the most powerful tool in your arsenal.
What would you advise a young person who wants to emulate your success?
Be honest with yourself: who you are, what you desire, what you can see yourself doing for the long haul.
For most of my life, and even to this day, I’ve struggled to balance my own desires with my desire to take care of and please other people in my life. It took some unlearning and some therapy, but I have embraced putting my own needs above all else. This has led to a career that is more aligned with the lifestyle I want.
Contrary to my dreams as a younger person, it’s not about reaching a peak, an accomplishment, a milestone. Those are all side effects of living a life where the everyday feels fulfilling and nourishing. When I quit my job as a software engineer, I didn’t focus on becoming a number one hitmaker, I focused on building a life where I get to create music I love every day. When you put the building blocks in place to do that (financially, socially, creatively), you’ll realize the achievements pale in comparison to knowing that the life you’re living is the one you choose. Everything else will come if you can keep sight of that.
Is there a person that made a profound impact on your life? Can you share a story?
My mom has both inspired me and discouraged me with her worldview and has created the most driving internal conflict in my life.
On one hand, she and my dad are inspirations to anyone: coming from a war torn country, building a new life, finding their way to a well off town in southern California, raising a family while also learning a new language. In their story I find resilience, I find strength that I draw upon when I face obstacles. No matter what happens, I know my family lineage is defined by perseverance. I know I can make it through anything because my parents did.
On the other side, a consequence of their trauma is they constantly live in fear. They’re always worried about money despite having a nice house and a 401k. They’re always worrying about their safety and fearful of unknown people and places. They always worry about my “unstable” lifestyle and how I shirk off their hallmarks of stability (marriage, heteronormativity, 9–5 job). This is how intergenerational trauma is formed, this fear is passed from the parents to the kids even though the kids live in entirely different circumstances in a world very different from the 1970s and the 80s.
I remember growing into my young adult years, I always had an irrational fear of money. Even when I was a software engineer I’d feel guilty for spending on anything no matter what it was: necessary spending like healthcare, investing in my music passions, or just letting myself have joy. There’d always be a tinge of guilt. I realize I was programmed since I was kid to always feel like life is going to collapse under you. You must save money and always be prepared for the worst to come. No matter how well you’re doing in life, you gotta be prepared for a war-sized event to take you out.
But what that robs you of is the chance to thrive and enjoy your successes, to invest in yourself, take risks and grow. In unlearning this, I realize how much time I wasted beating myself up for spending money or doing the “crazy thing”. I’m now learning that it’s better to be deliberate and see money, time, and risks as a tool to get to where you want.
How are you using your success to bring goodness to the world? Can you share with us the meaningful or exciting causes you’re working on right now?
I want my music and my artist persona to inspire people to fully embrace themselves. As a trans/nonbinary artist, the anti-trans rhetoric in our country is alarming and frankly scary.
The most important cause I am fighting for is the right for trans people to exist and access the necessary care we need. With anti-trans laws being passed, it is important to set up systems where trans folks, especially youths, can receive financial, social, and logistical support to access life saving gender affirming care.
I hope when people see me and listen to my music, they see someone who is fully themselves and being strong in their identity despite the roaring hate rearing its head across the US. We all deserve to be ourselves without fear.
Can you share with us a story behind why you chose to take up this particular cause?
I’ve taken up trans rights because it hits me on a personal level and is a cause that’s prescient in the USA today.
I’ve struggled with gender dysphoria since being a little kid. I didn’t have the vocabulary at the time, but some part of me knew that the body I was born with doesn’t match who I know I am. This lead to self image issues, depression, suicidal ideation, I felt something was wrong with me. Fast forward to now, after years of therapy and meeting other trans folks, I now have the words to describe myself: nonbinary, trans, queer. I now know that nothing is wrong with me and that there are others like me and I’m worthy of love.
At the end of the day, it was in learning our history and our story that I was able to be my true self. I hope that by being vocal and public about my identity, I can empower other young trans folks to embrace who they are and see that they are beautiful.
When they aren’t able to, the consequences are dire. Trans youth are our most at risk population for depression, anxiety, and self harm. Even though we have treatment that is scientifically proven, history dating back centuries documenting trans people, there are still people in our country who would rather attack us than focus on issues that would better the lives of the American people. I take up this cause because we will not be silent, we will not be erased. Being myself is taking part in establishing trans folks exist and are here to stay.
Can you share with us a story about a person who was impacted by your cause?
I love the internet in all its power, I’ve connected with so many trans and nonbinary folks across the country and the world. One that sticks out to me is someone DM’d me saying I’ve inspired them to take up voice lessons again after taking a break because of transition. They saw me, singing my songs and playing my guitar, doing my musician thing, and realized they wanted to keep pursuing their passion and express themselves as their trans self. All I want, no matter how you identify, is for anyone who sees me doing what I do to realize they too can choose a life they want to live.
Are there three things or are there things that individuals, society, or the government can do to support you in this effort?
Support trans kids, support trans people. It can be speaking out against anti-trans legislation that seeks to limit gender affirming care, it can be having the hard conversations with your more conservative family members and fighting misinformation, it can be making sure you get trans folks’ pronouns right and leading by example in creating safe spaces for us. The point is to be an active participant in the world around you and know your actions change the conversation around trans people from one of infighting and fear to one of acceptance and belonging.
Why do you think music in particular has the power to create social change and create a positive impact on humanity?
Music is the only medium of art that creates a moment of shared emotion. When people are in a room listening to music, their brain waves sync and they experience a connection like no other. Music is something that can unify us all and create community through shared emotional experiences as well as help others empathize with stories that aren’t our own. I take the dead author approach to my songs: I may be the author, but once the music is out it’s yours to find yourself in. In this way, we create a world where we see each other’s shared humanity while also allowing each of us to have our own story.
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started”?
- Being an artist and being a musician are different. Being a musician is being good and reliable at your instrument and honing your musical skills. Being a good artist is being an amazing storyteller, a great communicator, and a person other people can see themselves in feel empowered
- Being a musician/artist in 2024 means you have to be more than a great music maker, you have to learn how to make and edit videos, record yourself, be someone who knows how to present yourself to others in a cohesive, effective way. No one gets discovered in a bar anymore (and to be honest, did they ever?)
- Don’t feel like you’re going to annoy people by constantly promoting your work. There is an endless feed we all consume every day, the only way to get people to notice you is to keep talking about your music and what you’re doing so everyone has a chance to hear about it
- You get to define what success is within the circumstances of your life. As a music producer, I’ve seen behind the curtain how people get to where they are. Someone who has prior industry connections and external funding will have a different path than someone who is self funding and doing it totally DIY. You can’t compare paths to someone with a different life than you, so make goalposts that make sense for your journey. You’ll be so much happier in your version of success vs chasing someone else’s
- You are enough. Your story is enough. People will listen if you speak from the heart and are open with your story
You’re a person of enormous influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
A movement of self acceptance. Let’s let people live how they want to live, be who they are. Why is there so much judgment for people’s private decisions? If their actions don’t hurt anyone, why do we keep trying to police people’s private lives? All I want is a world where someone doesn’t have to fear being their true self.
Can you please give us your favorite life lesson quote? And can you explain how that was relevant in your life?
“An artist’s job is to reflect the times” — Nina Simone
I’ve always struggled with artists whose music is head-empty. To me, a compelling artist is saying something with their music that needs to be said, is being an extension of their community and the place they come from. Their job is to share their story and make ripples that change minds and hearts to make a more equitable world where everyone can be who they are and be loved.
We are blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
Alok Menon is a nonbinary icon! They’re really doing the work and I’ve recommended their resources, their books, their Instagram to anyone looking to learn about genderqueer history. I’m sure we’d have a fun time chatting
Thank you so much for these amazing insights. This was so inspiring, and we wish you continued success!
Music Stars Making a Social Impact: Why & How TONIE Is Helping To Change Our World was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.