An Interview With Brooke Young & Yitzi Weiner
Stop apologizing when it is not your fault: Apologizing can be very healthy; when you do something you sincerely feel bad about or need to say sorry, it is okay to take that accountability. That is also a sign of a healthy relationship. However, it has become culturally normal to apologize for things we do not have control over or should not have to apologize for. It happens especially for women. If someone says something like “This is what I believe” or “What do you believe?” asking for your opinion, you should not feel the need to apologize if you think or prefer one thing or another.
In today’s society, the tendency to prioritize others’ needs and expectations over one’s own can lead to significant emotional and psychological challenges. In this series, we would like to explore the complex dynamics of people-pleasing behavior and its impact on individual well-being and relationships. We would like to discuss the root causes of people-pleasing behavior, its effects on personal and professional life, and practical steps for cultivating healthier relationships and self-esteem. We hope that this series can provide insights, strategies, and real-life experiences that can help individuals navigate and overcome the pitfalls of being a people pleaser. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Valerie Kowalski.
Valerie Kowalski, LMSW, is an Associate Therapist at Gateway to Solutions. She has a Masters in Social Work from the University of Michigan and multiple years of experience in mental health across diverse communities. As an Associate Therapist, she approaches each client using a collaborative, goal-oriented, and humanistic approach. Before joining Gateway to Solutions, her journey included roles in nonprofit administration, working at a NYC homeless shelter, and volunteering with the Peace Corps in Zambia. Each role expanded her understanding of human resilience and diversity, guiding individuals through various life transitions.
Thank you so much for your time! I know that you are a very busy person. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us your “Origin Story”? Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in Southeast Michigan in a town called Brighton, Michigan, with a supportive family. I was always very social, excited, and eager to try new things. I was a little clumsy and unsure of myself, but I continued to try new sports, hobbies and reach new goals. Living in a big city has always been a dream; living in New York City now, I can still feel the draw I had when I was a young girl who had only seen it on TV. I grew up always wanting to be a part of something big, something meaningful. I have always been drawn to social work, social justice, and supporting others.
Can you tell us a bit about what you do professionally, and what brought you to this specific career path?
I am an associate therapist at a private practice called Gateway to Solutions. I help individuals work toward their goals, working collaboratively to support them through their mental health journey, life transitions, and daily challenges. I graduated with a Master’s in Social Work from the University of Michigan. After graduation, I joined the Peace Corps in Zambia as a Maternal and Child Health Promoter. I wanted to make a difference in the lives of others. When I returned, I started working for a shelter in New York City, where I eventually became the Program Director of a safe haven. The work and people were extremely impactful. It taught me so much about others and gave me the opportunity to learn about different people’s diverse experiences, policies, and funding for resources that support our most vulnerable populations. I chose to pivot to the private practice sector to support individuals in a therapeutic process to reach their goals in a more clinical environment, enhance my clinical capabilities, and continue to try to support others through challenges they face and empower them to heal.
Thank you for all that. Let’s now turn to the main focus of our discussion about People Pleasing. To make sure that we are all on the same page, let’s begin with a simple definition. What does “People Pleaser” mean to you?
A people-pleaser is someone who, in their quest to be likable, often finds themselves going to great lengths to ensure they are agreeable, even at the expense of their own needs and wants. This can lead to a pattern of agreeing to things they don’t truly agree with, failing to set boundaries, and avoiding conflict or disapproval at all costs. It’s a struggle that many can relate to, and one that can have significant impacts on their well-being and relationships.
On the surface, it seems like being a person who wants to please others is a good thing. Can you help articulate a few of the challenges that come with being a people pleaser?
A person who wants to please others sounds like it could be positive. Creating human connections, supporting others, and doing for others are vital to human life and community. If you are a people pleaser, the focus of your interactions can be drawn to being liked and avoiding conflict, which does not necessarily create meaningful connections. It could remove honesty, if you are saying things just to be agreeable, and it can diminish your wants, needs, role, and purpose in that relationship. A people pleaser does not have established boundaries and will try to please others no matter the cost to themselves, taking from their cup instead of adding to it. Even if they set these boundaries, they could have ruminating thoughts about whether the people they have set boundaries with dislike or are upset with them.
Does being a people pleaser give you certain advantages? Can you explain?
As a people-pleaser, there are certain advantages: you may be able to connect with others more easily. You may have more relationships, and people feel they can rely on you. There are more opportunities to connect with people who can rely on you to say yes, so you may be invited to do more. If you do everything you can to please others, you are often there for others when they need someone. People-pleasers can be seen as reliable and can be seen in high regard.
Can you describe a moment in your life when you realized that your own people-pleasing behavior was more harmful than helpful?
I have been a people-pleaser, and that desire to be likable has been something that has been a part of who I am. In my personal relationships with friends, I have had the fear of saying no when I am invited anywhere. I have felt the pressure to always RSVP yes, and if I couldn’t attend due to a scheduling conflict, I felt the need to repeatedly apologize or make it up to the person I had to say no to. It depleted my social ability and increased my stress levels. It made me want to withdraw entirely and not be able to practice self-care to be a good partner, friend, family member, social worker, or just good to myself. The stress of saying no to people and not being liked was overwhelming until I could practice self-care and navigate these feelings through reflection and mindfulness.
In your opinion, what are the common root causes of people-pleasing behavior?
Self-esteem and anxiety can both contribute to people-pleasing behavior. People with self-esteem challenges have negative thought patterns about themselves; their thought processes can be self-deprecating. It could lead to thoughts questioning whether people would like you because you may not like yourself. People with anxiety can also have thoughts racing as to the different policies, which could stem from a fear of rejection and social anxiety. People-pleasing can feel safe for people with low self-esteem or social anxiety because they are more likely to have interactions without conflict. People-pleasing behavior can feel almost like a guarantee that interactions will be positive and those you interact with will “like you.” If other people like you, your self-esteem may improve, and your anxiety might lessen. However, that could be temporary. If your actions revolve around pleasing others, you are not caring for yourself and your needs.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact personal relationships?
When agreeing and doing things for others out of the fear of not being liked or not wanting conflict, it may cause the people pleaser to be resentful of the other person. Individuals with people-pleasing tendencies may not stand up for themselves; they may not express their true wants and needs and just hope the other person knows them. Resentment toward the other person can cause tension to build, leading to an increased escalation of smaller problems. The people-pleaser may not feel understood or cared for, which could worsen their anxiety and self-esteem and cause them to withdraw.
How does people-pleasing behavior impact professional relationships?
When you are a people-pleaser, you often have difficulty saying no. When you cannot communicate your needs or aspirations, you may not ask for the raise, the time off, or the promotion you feel you deserve. This lack of communication of your needs and fear of conflict can hold you back professionally and limit your growth opportunities. You could also start feeling resentment. Resentment toward your boss, team, or company can cause you to be more stressed about your position and lead to burnout.
How can long-term people-pleasing behavior impact an individual’s mental health?
Long-term people-pleasing behaviors can add stress. Stress on the body can intensify any other mental health challenges someone faces and can even produce somatic or physical responses. Stress can worsen physical health and cause lack of sleep, increased or decreased appetite, tension, pain, headaches, and even hair loss. Without dealing with the root causes of the people-pleasing tendencies, such as anxiety and self-esteem, the symptoms can worsen.
In your experience, what is the role of self-awareness in overcoming people-pleasing tendencies, and how can individuals cultivate it?
Ask yourself questions. People pleasers need to be challenged to avoid complacency, such as, “Why do I feel I need to do this?” “What am I gaining from this relationship?” “Am I hesitant or afraid to share my opinion or set boundaries, and why?” People-pleasing can feel comfortable, normal, and necessary, especially if it feels like a part of how you identify. Self-awareness can also be practiced through mindfulness, which means living in the moment, not the future or past. Self-awareness can also be a challenging dialogue when people-pleasing tendencies and behaviors arise. This challenging dialogue can remind your anxious or worried self that you can prioritize yourself, set boundaries, and say no while thinking of positive examples to remind you of what happened when you have set boundaries in the past.
Here is the primary question of our discussion. Based on your experience or research, what are the “Five Strategies Or Techniques That Can Help Individuals Break Free From The Cycle Of People-Pleasing”? If you can, please share a story or an example for each.
1 . Practice saying no: Start saying no to small invitations, favors, or requests that people may have asked you to do. Don’t feel like you need to justify yourself; it may have been a past urge to give a long explanation for any invitation you had to decline, or every time you may have disagreed, it is okay to state you are unable to do something or you disagree. If a friend asks for a favor, such as watching their dog while they’re out, and you feel you cannot but have the urge to rearrange everything to help them, it can be okay to say I cannot do it this time. You are leaving it short, simple, and polite.
2 . Accepting imperfection: When you have people-pleaser tendencies, you may have idealized perfection, no conflicts, no disagreements, and peace among all the people you interact with. When you accept that there will be challenges and conflicts, it is easier to prepare for how you will respond to them. Accepting imperfection can help you feel less of a need to make things better yourself.
3 . Self-care: Choose yourself, be kind to yourself, and try to prioritize your needs. When you are invited to do something and feel exhausted, overwhelmed, or uninterested, remind yourself of your self-care needs.
4 . Finding which people bring you joy: When you are trying to recover from people-pleasing behaviors, you may feel some people drain you, and others lift you up. Try to find those who fill your cup, those you are excited to see, and who support you. When you have people in your life who are constantly taking from you, try to set boundaries with them to allow room for more opportunities for your cup to be filled.
5 . Stop apologizing when it is not your fault: Apologizing can be very healthy; when you do something you sincerely feel bad about or need to say sorry, it is okay to take that accountability. That is also a sign of a healthy relationship. However, it has become culturally normal to apologize for things we do not have control over or should not have to apologize for. It happens especially for women. If someone says something like “This is what I believe” or “What do you believe?” asking for your opinion, you should not feel the need to apologize if you think or prefer one thing or another.
What steps should people pleasers take to establish healthier boundaries?
Accept that you cannot do it all, manage your expectations, and try not to be too hard on yourself. Take one invitation, one interaction, one person at a time. Imperfection is inevitable; life is imperfect, and conflicts will happen, which is a part of life! Say “no” more, and understand you need not bend backward to align with someone else’s preferences or requests. People may be upset when you cannot always do what they want you to do. Be honest with them and take a step back when needed. Go to therapy and talk to someone about setting boundaries and building the confidence to live in a way that serves you and decide things for yourself.
How can someone who is naturally empathetic maintain their compassion while becoming more assertive?
It may be more challenging for someone who is naturally empathetic to set boundaries because they can feel the feelings others are experiencing. When a friend is going through a hard time and asks for the other friend to come over, but you are overwhelmed, tired, and not able to do this, it can feel as though you are not being a good friend; you are not there for them in their time of need. But you cannot support others constantly if you cannot support yourself with what you need, it may be necessary to say no to care for yourself. Empathy is an impactful trait that helps you relate to the world and people around you. Asserting your needs and boundaries can feel unnatural, but it is necessary.
What are the most common misconceptions about people pleasers, and how do these misconceptions affect their journey toward recovery?
The most common misconceptions about people pleasers are that they are pushovers, do not have their own opinions, and always want to do what other people request. People pleasers are seen as friendly people who will do whatever you say, that you can push them around, and they will take it. People pleasers often avoid stating strong opinions to avoid conflict, which could lead people to think that they do not have their own opinions rather than just omitting their views to avoid disagreement. People pleasers can seem enthusiastic about what others want to do, and of course, there are times they genuinely want to do what others request of them. Still, they can also pretend they are enthusiastic about a favor or request to seem agreeable.
What role can therapy or counseling play in helping individuals overcome people-pleasing behavior?
People pleasing involves a lot of overthinking and thinking of the worst. Therapy can give people tools to challenge this thinking and find ways to be mindful. In therapy, there can be forms of role-play to practice saying no and setting boundaries in your life. In therapy, there can be opportunities to explore someone’s self-esteem and enhance their comfortability, acceptance, and love for themselves. Therapy can help someone uncover their fears, guilt, or shame regarding why they have people-pleaser tendencies and how it could manifest into unhealthy anger or resentment. Therapy can help guide and support someone to become more mindful and intentional with how they spend their time and interact with others, as well as help someone understand their thought processes and how to manage unhealthy thinking.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. ☺
Demystifying mental health treatment and normalizing talking about mental health would be highly beneficial to so many people. I believe everyone could benefit from therapy at some point in their life. Life is messy, the world is flawed, we are not perfect, and things cannot always be in our control. Let’s normalize asking for help and make an effort to understand and support individuals through their journey.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Yes, please see my bio page at Gateway to Solutions’ private practice website below. Please feel free to connect with us. We are happy to help support you through their mental health journeys.
https://www.gatewaytosolutions.org/valerie-kowalski-lmsw-dbt-cbt-rebt/
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
About the Interviewers:
Brooke Young is a multipassionate publicist, public speaking mentor, and communication consulting. She works with a wide range of clients across the globe, and across a diverse range of industries, to help them create, develop, and promote powerful messages through heart-centered storytelling. She has formerly worked On-Air with FOX Sports, competed in the Miss America Organization, and is the Author of a Children’s Book. She frequently works with children as a professional speaker where she educates on Volunteering and Therapy Dogs. She has over a decade of professional performing background and finds joy in sparking creative passions for her clients.
Yitzi Weiner is a journalist, author, and the founder of Authority Magazine, one of Medium’s largest publications. Authority Magazine is devoted to sharing in depth “thought leadership interview series” featuring people who are authorities in Business, Tech, Entertainment, Wellness, and Social Impact.
At Authority Magazine, Yitzi has conducted or coordinated thousands of empowering interviews with prominent Authorities like Shaquille O’Neal, Peyton Manning, Floyd Mayweather, Paris Hilton, Baron Davis, Jewel, Flo Rida, Kelly Rowland, Kerry Washington, Bobbi Brown, Daymond John, Seth Godin, Guy Kawasaki, Lori Greiner, Robert Herjavec, Alicia Silverstone, Lindsay Lohan, Cal Ripkin Jr., David Wells, Jillian Michaels, Jenny Craig, John Sculley, Matt Sorum, Derek Hough, Mika Brzezinski, Blac Chyna, Perez Hilton, Joseph Abboud, Rachel Hollis, Daniel Pink, and Kevin Harrington
Yitzi is also the CEO of Authority Magazine’s Thought Leader Incubator which helps business leaders to become known as an authority in their field, by interviewing prominent CEOs, writing a daily syndicated column, writing a book, booking high level leaders on their podcast, and attending exclusive events.
Valerie Kowalski of Gateway to Solutions On How to Recover From Being a People Pleaser was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.